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    Black Friday Coverage Part 3

    Posted by Quad Jacks April 16, 2011

    At the end of the last Black Friday segment, James Mitchell asked the question, “What happens to the player funds should the sites go bankrupt due to Black Friday.”

    Panel guest Dutch Boyd responded by simply saying he doesn’t know. He also admitted that he has a lot of money locked up on the sites and is worried. He goes on to say that, unlike others, he is reluctant to making the transition to playing live full time because it is much more difficult than online.

    As we start this Black Friday segment, Dutch starts off with a simple response to the vague assurances we have heard thus far. “I’m fucked…and we’re not going to see our money for a very long time”
    Joining Dutch on the Black Friday panel are Zekda Art, Pete Lubrano, and John Kim.

    What to do with Your Online Poker Funds

    2:00 – Dutch quotes BJ Nemeth’s site SportOfPoker.com about what online players should do with their bankrolls that are on the online sites. The website states that Non US players who have funds on AP/UB, PokerStars, and Full Tilt should withdraw funds immediately. The also site suggests US players with funds on smaller sites such as Cake should consider withdrawing most if not all their funds.

    3:50 – MrSrslySirius joins the panel and says he isn’t optimistic about seeing his funds again. He also states that he doesn’t think that withdrawing at this time is a good idea due to the problems with the processors and the scrutiny they are currently under. Srsly also states he is worried about his musical taking a nose dive and admits to feelings of depression. After a quick pick-me-up from the chat, Srlsy is interrupted by Pete Lubrano re-joining the panel.

    Listener Feedback

    10:20 – Thomas, a listener from Slovakia, calls in to discuss the differences between live and online play.

    17:40 – A listener by the name of LaRue, a backer of US players, calls in and asks about what responsibilities/loyalties the US players with locked Black Friday funds owe the backers. LaRue also asks at what price Dutch would pay for a remote IP address and an identity in a foreign country. After a short disagreement between Pete and Dutch on the subject of playing online via a virtual IP In short, Dutch and John agree that the players are still on the hook for makeup.

    26:26 – A call in from BigNibs who asks Dutch if casinos will raise the rake for live poker. Dutch responds that he thinks it will have an opposite effect on the rake and in fact could provide more competition between the casinos.

    30:20 – John, Dutch, and Pete discuss the reliance of HUDs by online players and other pitfalls of transferring from online to live poker.

    Will Sponsored Pros be Dropped?

    35:30 Zek asks the question “Will the sponsored Pros be dropped?” All agree, due to the lack of a legal contract, they will be dropped. The Clonie Gowen case against FTP was used as a premise for this opinion.

    38:50 Rob “VeeRob” Perelman joins the panel to discuss the subject of the future Online Pros. He also discusses how Black Friday affects backers. Also discussed are FPP points, Onyx Cup, and what is now known as the Epic Poker League.

    45:25 – A backer named Brad calls in to discuss the backer/player relationship given the current situation. He asks what non-US players should do with those players he backs that have funds on the indicted sites. Dutch suggests playing on smaller sites like Everest. John Kim states the only reason to keep going if a player was on pace to reach Super Nova or Super Nova elite. Again Dutch and John agree that the players are on the hook for makeup.

    Peter Berg, a Scandinavian listener, calls in and what will happen after the case goes to court. Says the case is a “Rigged Game”. Dutch Boyd says the case isn’t “rigged” but the case against the sites is strong.

    Eric Morris from Bluff Magazine is optimistic

    54:45 Eric Morris of Bluff Magazine joins the panel. Mr. Morris shares the rumor that within the next 24 to 48 hours Poker Stars will stop operating globally. After sharing this grim news, Zek asks how this will affect Bluff Magazine. Morris says he remains optimistic since a small percentage of Bluff’s revenue comes from FTP and Poker Stars. He believes this be a good thing for Bluff in that they can add new advertisers such as Merge, Bodog, and Cake Poker.

    Morris states that Black Friday has leveled the playing field and can allow these smaller sites to thrive. On a normal day, Bluff receives 1 percent click through on the banner ads on their site. Since the sites were shut down by the DOJ, they have received 13 percent click through on the ads.
    Morris opines that CardPlayer and Pokernews could be hurt more than Bluff due to the fact they depend heavily on the larger sites.

    After overcoming some technical difficulties, Morris calls the actions of the Big Three processing payments in the US as reckless. He goes on to say that Poker Stars owner is a “Stand-Up Guy” and would make everything whole even if it means going out of business. Morris does not believe that Full Tilt could survive without a presence in the US. Comparisons are made to when the company NetTeller stopped processing in the US. Everyone was paid but it just took time.

    Conspiracy Theory

    1:20:24 – At this time, Morris shares a conspiracy theory. He feels that there was no coincidence that days after the District of Columbia announced they would be running their own poker site that would be run by the lottery; the DOJ dropped the hammer on the Big Three sites. He says that the government may be acting in a Socialistic manner and wants to regulate poker on the Federal level.
    The panel then discusses what the sites should be doing right now. Morris feels that Bitar needs to make more of a statement than what he has at this point. They also discuss the future of the sponsored pros.

    He says that it will be Business usual for Bluff Magazine at the upcoming WSOP.

    Morris calls this an exciting time for poker and remains unusually optimistic. He believes that affiliates could also benefit by converting customers to the smaller sites. He thinks that smaller tournaments such as the Heartland Poker Tour will be helped by the day’s events.
    In closing, he warns the panel to not be negative. Advises to look at this as an opportunity and that there is a new day on the horizon. Dutch Boyd disagrees and says that this is not the time for self-growth and for players to find themselves. Nor is he looking forward to starting over on a new site. In short, Boyd says, “Everybody who had money on these online sites just took a bad beat.”

    How long are we going to do this?

    1:41:00 – The hosts are still feeling fresh and are ready to keep the show going as James Mitchel, one of the current hosts of Konvict Korner, returns to the panel.

    Dutch rails that if he’s hurting, there are others that are hurting worse. Again he restates that this is not a growth opportunity.
    James Mitchell believes that the player funds do not sit on the site. They take the money an invest it. With this happening on a Friday, he does not think that money will be available for a few days and that is why there is a delay.

    Dutch continues to be pessimistic as he believes the accounts have been seized by the federal government.

    A Surprise Guest – Sorel Mizzi

    1:50:00 – At this time, a caller going by the handle of Zang from Hong Kong calls into the show. After some leveling from Marco, the callers asks, “Why did the actions of the DOJ come as such a big of a big surprise?” He’s been hearing for a while that one day this would happen and that the actions by the DOJ were inevitable. He just didn’t feel it would be this abrupt.

    It is soon revealed that the caller is in fact professional poker player Sorel Mizzi. The conversation then turned to payouts in which Dutch Boyd states that he believes it is going to take a while if at all. He again shares that he feels strongly that the DOJ would just take it all. Dutch compares the actions to that of a drug bust.

    James and Sorel disagree by saying that there is a lot of money to be made by legalizing the action and comparing the actions to the illegal downloading of music. It would be near impossible to enforce and that if they take down poker sites, new ones would just pop up to replace them.

    Zek chimes in and says that he doubts that PokerStars will roll over and he also believes that this will affect FTP more so than Poker Stars.

    1:59:00 – The subject of FTP’s mult-entry tournaments were a ploy to take more money from the Poker Community. Sorrell jokes that he gave FTP the idea to run these multi-entry tournaments. The panel views this as a “money grab”. As they compare the repercussions, they all agree that Poker Stars was built more for the long run.

    At the end of the interview, Dutch Boyd gives a brief and concise review of what is known at the time. He reviews the basis of charges against the sites stating UIEGA and the Wire Act.

    The discussion then turns again to Onyx Poker. He also states that Annie Duke’s new poker series, what will become to be known as the Epic Poker League, will continue since it does not rely on the online poker sites. The panel also thinks that the number of player in the WSOP will be down this year.

    Jared Paul – Poker Manager

    2:18:00 Jared Paul, founder of a non-profit organization called A Good Idea and a Poker Manager, is invited onto the panel to discuss how agents and managers and could also be affected.

    Paul said that a month ago, an unnamed PR representative warned that something like this was going to happen.

    Chat then asks that if he had insider information, did players such as Greg Raymer, Annie Duke, and Phil Hellmuth had similar information and was it a factor for him to leave their respective sites. Paul says he is confident that this was the case.

    Dutch Boyd boldly states that if these people, especially the owners of the sites, had prior knowledge then they would be held in the same company as Russ Hamilton. Boyd assures that he has faith in the Lederers of the poker world will do the right thing. The panel also discusses the possibility of high profile professionals such as Phil Ivey being indicted. Boyd says all information will come out in the end He compares this to a white collar crime and that very little jail time will be served, if any.

    It is brought to the show’s attention that the smaller sites are jumping on the opportunity. Bodog announces that they are still active in the US and that Carbon Poker is promoting a reload bonus. Bringing credence to what previous guest, Eric Morris, had stated earlier in the broadcast.

    The show must go on

    Not wanting to disappoint the listeners and with little new information coming from the sites, the hosts decide to keep going. Marco reads another vague release from Poker Stars while Full Tilt and Ultimate Bet remain silent.

    Bryan “The Icon” Micon

    2:38:00 – Bryan “The Icon” Micon joins the panel and returned from a night of playing at the Belagio. He states it was “Business as Usual” at the Belagio and there was not a noticeable spike in attendance. “We’re all live players now.” He adds.
    After fighting some technical issues, Micon disconnects from the call but says he will be back later.

    An inside source?

    2:47:00 As the segment ends, a listener that goes by the handle ‘K’ calls into the show. The caller claims to be an acquaintance of Ray Bitar. He proclaims that Ray Bitar was aware this was going to happen. Micon reconnects with the panel and says he knows who the caller is and confirms him as reliable source.

    To find out what the caller ‘K’ knows, you will have to listen to the next segment Part 4 of the broadcast.

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